Gog and Magog in Closer Focus: Maliki Islam and Saudi Meddling

There are two elements of the discussion about Gog and Magog that have suddenly become clearer to me, bringing this prophecy into closer focus. First, the great army described in Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 list two participants that have puzzled me, until now: Libya and Northern Sudan – but NOT Egypt. Second, Prince Bandar, the chief of Saudi Arabian intelligence, threatened Vladimir Putin that he would organize a terrorist attack during the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, if Russia didn’t back off in their support for Assad in Syria.

Let’s take that second one first, because it’s HUGE…

On Tuesday, July 30, 2013, Prince Bandar bin Sultan secretly traveled to Moscow to meet with Russian President Putin and did something shocking. He threatened Putin with a terrorist attack if he didn’t stop supporting the Assad regime in Syria. The idea of threatening the president of Russia who just happens to be a former KGB officer is beyond incredible.


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Now, Prince Bandar started off the meeting, using sweeteners such as oil and gas deals, but Russia had no need for oil and gas. As a part of that discussion, Bandar made a point to say that a military intervention was absolutely necessary.

The talks failed, and just 22 days after the meeting, a poison gas ‘attack’ occurred in the Ghouta suburb of Damascus, Syria – on August 21st. Does that timing maybe sound a little… convenient?

Yeah, it sounds far too convenient to be accidental. As I said before, the Syrian War is a Saudi Intelligence Operation, and that chemical gas ‘attack’ was too.

But, here’s the point that connects to the coming of Gog and Magog: Putin ordered a massive strike against Saudi Arabia if the US and her allies attacked Syria. Does THAT maybe indicate to you why Obama might have backed down on a strike against Syria?

Doesn’t that also tell you how willing Russia is to engage in military operations in the Middle East?

Furthermore, what do you think would happen if there is a terrorist attack during the Sochi winter Olympics this February?

Doesn’t that bring Gog and Magog into closer focus?

Oh, and here’s a tangential thought. Now that the Saudis have admitted that they fund and control the Chechen jihadist rebels…

If the Boston Marathon bombing was an attack by two Chechen jihadist rebels, who ordered these ‘rebels’ to bomb the marathon?

Hmmmm… makes you think.

But wait, there’s more…

Yesterday, I stumbled upon this map:

Map of Islam
Map of Islam

Did you notice that green area East and North of Iran?

Yeah, THAT is why the Saudis have control of the Chechen rebels. And, Bandar’s threat means that the Russians have all the confirmation that they need to blame Saudi Arabia for every problem that they’ve had with the Chechens since 1991. You can only imagine how angry Putin must have been.

Maliki Islam

Notice the more blue-green area that covers most of North Africa on the map. That is the area dominated by Maliki Islam, a version of Sunni Islam. That area encompasses two of the key players that have always puzzled me: Libya and Sudan. I’ve always wondered why they were included, while Egypt was not.

Well, I think that we have a clue. They observe a different form of Islam than Egypt and the other nations of the Middle East.

Now, I want to say that this is not a strong argument. Maliki Islam really isn’t that much different than the rest of Sunni Islam. So, for me to make a case based just on this would be silly. But, subtle differences can be important if they continue over a period of centuries.

This will certainly require more investigation, but for the first time, I have another clue that helps me see Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 more clearly.

This Means Prepare – NOW

These two elements that I’ve described above, Saudi Meddling and Maliki Islam, should help you see that the coming of Gog and Magog is not something hypothetical. This isn’t theory. This is reality, and you need to get ready for it.

Get ready.



If you find a flaw in my reasoning, or wish to add your own viewpoint, leave a comment. Your input is truly welcome.


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38 thoughts on “Gog and Magog in Closer Focus: Maliki Islam and Saudi Meddling”

  1. Are you suggesting that Russia and China are Gog and Magog? I think that is not very good research and is simply parroting historically unsubstantiated non-sense. Neither nation has ever called or been connected to an place, entity, deity or otherwise called “gog” or “magog.” The Bible is always clear, but it is hard to see past the fog generated by others who comment and proclaim things that they want others to believe. Some of those types of people often name Bible versions after themselves.

    Anyway, the City of London has as it “protectors” two giant demons…Gog and Magog. These demons have been worshiped and revered for thousands of years. This continues to this day as it has since ancient times. Gog and Magog are clearly Western powers. The City of London has exerted great evil and in fact has an enormous amount of power to this day, more than most realize.

    The City of London and the nations it controls is Gog and Magog.

    Russia is historically not an aggressive nation. It already has enough land and struggles to control that. Russia, if you study history has been attacked MUCH more than it has attacked anyone. Usually, it only seeks to protect itself. That is just history. Aggressive nations…France, Germany, UK…they start the wars.

    • Hi Andrew,

      Of course, China is not involved in Gog and Magog. I have never said such a thing, and I find myself mystified that you would jump to such a conclusion so quickly.

      Ezekiel 38 and 39 are quite clear as to the identity of Gog and Magog. If you have doubts just look at the identity of the allies.

      Why would you look to the City of London for understanding of who Gog and Magog is?

      We are to look to the Bible and not a doctrine of demons.

      And Russia is historically not an aggressive nation?

      You have GOT to be kidding. The bloody history of Russia from the Czars until now is ample evidence that you cannot be serious.

      But, I thank you for taking the time to comment on my article.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • I believe the “land of unwalled villages” is the US and Canada.
        This can not be a reference to Israel, as they are not a land of unwalled villages. But we most certainly are.

        Plus, have you noticed how many people from the Islamic world will die?
        5 out of 6?

        Of course, this Great War, has never taken place at any point in recorded human history. Yet.

        • Hi Kenneth,

          Why do you choose US and Canada, and not some other place?

          Yes, Israel is a land of walled villages, but those walls are coming down. Furthermore, Sunnis and Shiites have been killing each other for centuries.

          Thank you for taking the time to comment.

          Yours in Christ,

          John Little

    • Andrew, I kinda think Gog and Magog are spiritual beings also but I would have never connected them to england. What is the source of your belief? Curious mind would like to know? Eschatology is often full of similar yet different thoughts and I like to look at them all in hopes of furthering my own limited understanding.

      • Hi Keith,

        I know that I’m not Andrew, but I can answer that question. Within London, there is a financial district called the City of London, or just ‘The City’. The protectors of The City are two giants Gog and Magog. They actually have a parade every year celebrating these two ‘giants’.

        I actually consider this to be a Satanic attempt to confuse the issue. Gog is a real person. Magog is a real land. We can argue over their identities all day long, but at the end of the day they are going to bring an army down upon Israel.

        Worse, fire will rain down on places in the world from God, in addition to whatever additional devastation happens.

        We must be ready for this.

        Yours in Christ,

        John Little

        • Thanks John, ha that is definitely a new one for me. I used to think as you think regarding Gog and Magog and I sure am not rejecting that line of thought but I am like I said above, thinking they are some of Satan’s high princes.

          in Jesus


          • Hey Keith Bruner,

            The words GOG and MAGOG do have that ominous, Satanic feel, so I can certainly understand how you get that. And, who knows? Maybe Satan DOES have two high princes named Gog and Magog.

            However, it is a Hebrew name:

            Genesis 10:2 – The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

            And, in Hebrew, a ‘ma’ placed at the beginning of the word means ‘from the’, so Magog would mean ‘from the gog’. And ‘gog’ means top, in Hebrew. So, Magog would mean ‘from the top’.

            Interesting, no?

            Great question, Keith.

            Yours in Christ,

            John Little

    • As and aside ‘Gog’ and ‘Magog’ (referred to by Geoffrey on Monmouth, in his 12th century epic Historia Regum Britanniae, as ‘Goemagot’) was/were giant(s) reputedly slain by Brutus of Troy. Brutus (who may have given his name to Britain, though there other competing theories) is credited with founding ‘Troia Nova’ (‘New Troy’ — after the sack of the parent city in Asia Minor, or at least one of the sackings) c. 1000 BCE. It was later renamed by the Romans as Londinium — the the city we know today as London.

      If anything, the Gog/Magog/giant legends speaks more of the Trojan origins of early Britain than of Ezek 38-39. And the origins of Troy? Look no further than 1 Chr. 2;6 ‘Dara’ (spelt ‘Darda’ in 1 Ki 4:31). He was a founder of Troy. From his name came the term ‘Dardanelles’. He was a descendant of Zerah (Zarah), twin brother of Pharez (Perez), son of Judah (same verses.)

      Again in i Ki 4:13 Solomon was reported to be ‘wiser than all men—than Ethan the Ezrahite…and Darda,,,,and his fame was in all the surrounding nations.’. Why single out Ethan and Darda? Who was Ethan and what was an Ezrahite? Well, Ethan also wrote Psa 89, and was equally famous for his wisdom. He was roughly contemporaneous with Solomon (c. 950 BCE). An Ezrahite? That is simply a ‘son’ of Zerah (also 1 Chr 2:6). He also appears to have been the brother of Dara (Darda, though sometimes the Hebrew term ‘son’ can mean ‘descendant’.

      Solomon and Ancient Troy — now there’s an interesting connection!

      And ancient Jewish origins (via Brutus the Ezrahite/Zerahite) in Britain? Surely not. But what if….

  2. THE BIBLE states,a religous group will put christians to death,by chopping off their head,BELIEVING they are doing god a favor,and helping him,THAT religous group are the MUSLIMS,(read,geneisis)and the MUSLIMS god, is LUCIFER,……SO americans are screwed,they love the muslims and when the muslims turn on them,they’ll discover the muslims aren’t politically correct like the devil worshipping americans are,AND PUTIN,ain’t a stupid ,moron like americans are either,HE WILL BOMB THEM and AMERICA,the USA has turned from GOD,and even PUTIN knows its,he also knows AMERICA is a grave danger to the whole world,and hes knows someone will have to STOP america that has the power to do so,RUSSIA and CHINA,will be the spearhead,that brings americas RAIN OF TERROR on the world to an end…SO get close to our dear LORD children,…..TRIBULATION IS ABOUT TO GET STARTED…….AMERICA will be wiped off the map …….forever…………………..

    • Hi Arizona,

      I really wish that I could disagree with you. I really do, but I can’t. We have rejected God, and now comes the judgment.

      Good comment.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  3. YOU KNOW,…EVERY prophet in the BIBLE,warned ..GOD SAID ,do not harm my little ones,you would rather have a millstone tied around your neck and be cast into the sea,COMPARED to what I’LL do to you,AMERICANS LAUGHED,and spit in the LORDS face,…….I only have one thing to say,..YOU DON’T KNOW WHO IT IS YOUR MESSING WITH,..YAHUVEH,is a happy go lucky type of guy,I know him,BUT HE DOES HAVE a temper to,and SPITTING IN HIS FACE,ain’t very smart,messing with ISRAEL ain’t very smart either,THATS HIS HOME TOWN,JERUSALEM,he loves JERUSALEM,and so what do the americans do,THEY STAB ISRAEL right in the BACK,..well I guess stupid is as stupid does,and americans have FALLEN from the LORDS GRACES,now the whole country will learn WHO the LORD is their messing with the hard way….WHAT our LORD will unleash on america,will be beyond anyones wildest imagination.get ready for a horror show. not even HOLLY WOOD could have dreamed up…………..

  4. HAHAHA,LITTLE JOHN,..I have worked for the MOST HIGH a long time,and I know you would love to hear some of the things he has told me,send me an e-mail with your phone number,I’ll call you……………

  5. IF you look at all the religious and political based websites they all have their own ideas of who Gog and Magog are. The secret British Empire still exists and rules America through it’s banking interests and another player in the story is Germany which has a large illuminati base. The story we must look at is the bible story of the King of the North and South and try to fathom from here who these great two opposing forces are ? Due to the complexity of the illuminati and how they operate i am still unsure who will fulfil this role.

    • Hi John,

      The question is… which one of us is correct?

      Or, maybe I should say… which one of our interpretations conforms best to the Bible?

      And… if you use material that is NOT in the Bible, that’s a problem, right?

      I know that Gog and Magog are said to be the demon protectors of the ‘City of London’. But, does it matter what the City of London says? What matters is what the Bible says. I believe that it’s more important to pay attention to the Bible and not demon-inspired banksters.

      Magog was a real person, the son of Japeth. And, he settled in a real place.

      Thanks for that comment.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  6. As with any serious study of Gog and Magog, we MUST turn our eyes and our souls to the Holy Bible. The Bible is quite clear as to the true locations of Gog and Magog. Much of what we see in the Bible refers us to the land around the Black Sea and the northeast Mediterranean Sea. Remember, this only a given land area. Perhaps more important to this discussion is the lineage of the peoples who originally made up the areas of Gog and Magog. Many of the ancient peoples, did in fact, move northwards out of eastern Turkey and the immediately surrounding areas of ancient Turkey. In New Testament times the Apostle Paul and others refer to that ancient area as Asia Minor. Over the succeeding generations, whole populations of peoples from Asia Minor moved northward, northeast and to the northwest, into many of the areas shaded green on the map. It is also important to keep in mind that the great war of Gog and Magog will be fought by the peoples of those nations. Those nations may include Chechnya, Russia, and other southern satellite nations from the old Soviet Union. Of course the other nations mentioned from around the Middle East and North Africa will participate in that war as well. What the Bible actually states and shows us is the nations from the Middle East and North Africa such as Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Sudan and others, as well as the southern nation states of the old Soviet Union will invade Israel at the time appointed by God. Will modern day Russia participate in such a war? With the current ties that Russia has with several of the Middle Eastern nations as well as Iran and the old Soviet states it is more probable they will be involved, however, that is not a guarantee. Regardless of the nations involved, the final resolution has already been determined by God. Those nations “hooked” by God into invading Israel will pay the ultimate price, the absolute destruction of their military machine and their home nations. It remains to be seen if that means Israel will counter attack using nuclear weapons or if God intervenes through miracles to defeat Gog and Magog. One thing is certain, those nations supporting them as well as Gog and Magog will be utterly decimated. Only God knows the exact when and how. We must wait upon his timing.

    • Hi Rob,

      If my observations are correct, we do not need to wait for God to show us His timing. He is showing us right now. The Central Asian Republics south of Russia are bit players in this game. Looking for them to play the role of Gog and Magog is not only fruitless, it will blind you to Russia, the Land of Magog.

      As I have said in other places, it doesn’t matter much to me how you look at this prophecy, as long as you prepare for what is coming. If you comfort yourself by thinking that the resolution of prophecy is far off, you run the very grave risk of being caught when prophecy comes knocking at your door.

      Fire WILL descend upon those who dwell securely, at the time of Gog and Magog. You must prepare for that – in addition to the financial collapse that is also coming.

      Thank you for your comment, Rob.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  7. Well, firstly i’d like to say that this being my first trip here…I’ll CERTAINLY be back. Secondly, I’m glad to see that you’re “on to” the Saudis. You probably know that they have been involved in the ENTIRE reality of creating the circumstances for the (so called), “War on Terror”. From the Russian invasion of Afghanistan (1980’s), to today’s uprisings, (so called “Arab Spring), and Hasad’s civil war.

    Also, (never forget this), it was 19 Saudis that attacked us in NYC, for a VERY SERIOUSLY GOOD REASON. Also, are you aware that the 1st Century Apostles and Deacons, and Theologians considered Asia Minor as the likely Gog [the “chief prince”] and Magog [the land]?

    Now, 3 questions:

    What do Daniel 10:13 & 21, & Eph. 6:12, and Ezk. 38:2 all have in common? and why is that significant, and, does it have ANY relationship to either Genesis 6: 2 – 4 OR Revelation 9:1?

    If you have ANY input on this John Little, I’d love to hear it, as you certainly know History in a full spectrum view. And I ALWAYS hold true students of History in high regard. For, I am convinced that “He who fails to learn the lessons of History, is doomed to repeat it’s errors”, [my parapharse].

    I’m sure that we all realize that Ecc. 1:9, and 3:15 ARE absolute spiritual principles of life. Knowing THAT can place much of the O.T. in perspective to modern event sequences. We may not be “wrestling against flesh and blood” as much as it certainly seems at times. and “Vlady”, the Saudis, the “messiah’ of the ‘Belt Way’, and Hasad, MIGHT NOT be as significant as their “princes” are. Look forward to your response John. And THANKS for a VERY inspiring and educational class!

    • Hi Christian Gains,

      Thank you for your warm regard. I really appreciate that.

      We certainly do wrestle with more than flesh and blood. However, we should be careful not to spiritualize what was meant to be physical. There WILL be a physical army that will descend upon Israel. And, the fire that will descend upon the Earth at that time won’t be spiritual, either. I’m sure that you get that, but I feel the need to mention it.

      As far as Gog and Magog being Turkey… well, that is possible. However, the allies of Gog and Magog give us important clues. Rosh, for instance is very clearly Rus, or the Ukraine. Furthermore, Russia is the current power with the ability to bring together, and act as a protector for, the great army that will come down. Also, Russia has the greatest interest, both financial and political. Turkey, not so much.

      Let’s watch how this works out. I really believe that the situation is developing quickly, and we need to prepare immediately. If Russia fails to live up to the prophecy of Gog and Magog, and Turkey turns out to be the main player in this drama… our preparations will not be in vain.

      That was a great comment, CG. Keep them coming!

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  8. We are to get ready, to prepare now. How are we to do this particularly with the information that you and Arizona feel is coming America’s way?
    Thanks for your article and may God bless you.

    • Hi El,

      I’m glad that you’re getting into the preparedness mindset. If you click the ‘Prepper’ category on my website, you’ll find a lot of information there. Here’s the link:


      But, here’s a summary:

      • Draw close to the Lord – FIRST. Without God, you have nothing. PRAY.
      • Make sure that where you live is safe. Move away from cities. Have like-minded neighbors that you can trust. The western ‘Mountain States’ are best.
      • Store food and have access to fresh water that is not dependent on public utilities.
      • Buy gold and silver. If you need to get away, this will be a portable store of value that you can trade with.
      • Think about leaving the US. America is the focus of God’s wrath, so the US is NOT a safe place to be.

      You’ll also find a wealth of information here:


      I hope that this helps.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  9. Islam will be incorporated into the worship of the beast just like every other religion on earth. I’d bet the only part of islam kept will be the beheading thing.

    • Hey Frank,

      I agree with you. Although, they might take more than just the ‘beheading thing’ from Islam, but you have the right idea.

      Keep up the good work.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  10. China is not mentioned in the bible. In eschatology, during the times of Paul’s prophecy, as well as Daniel, (while remembering that the bible is very geographical) we have Turkey at the center (put, kush). That makes Russia the kings of the North. The Muslim nations, the Kings of the East. Look at all the countries surrounding Israel. They are all Muslim now. The koran is the enemies book of deceit. It says in the bible, there will be beheading. Who is beheading? Christians aren’t. Muslims are. Muslims worship a stone at Mecca. They treat that stone as their diety and believe that stone will wash away their sins. Only God, through Jesus can forgive our sins. Muslims are worshiping, in essence, the prince of darkness. The bible says there will be 7 kings who will rule 7 mountains. Well, kings don’t rule mountains, do they? NO! They rule kingdoms. So there will be seven kings ruling seven kingdoms. The anti Christ essentially means all those who deny Jesus is the son of God. Those who deny the Trinity. ( The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit) Iran and Saudi despise each other. The Harlot, who has an abundance of wine, will rule those who deny the trinity. What is that abundance of wine? Could it be oil? We tend to be euro-centric in our interpretation of the bible. When the prophet Paul prophesized about the end times, he said 5 empires have fallen, one is here, (Roman Empire) and one is yet to come. Maybe the yet to come is the Ottoman empire? Ask yourself what that means in the bible? We tend to confuse the alegorical with the literal and the literal with the alegorical. We must look at the geography at the time the bible was written. God Bless you all. Pray for all the convert and repent for Jesus is Lord.

    • Hey Beth!

      That was a great comment. You have that key element that we all must have, a love for the Lord. Keep that up.

      If I could, there seem to be a couple details that need a bit of clarification. Kush is north Sudan and Phut (or put) is Libya. Your reference to the ‘Kings of the East’… well, that passage in the Bible is something of a mystery, but they do not fight during Gog and Magog.

      God bless you Beth. Keep praying for the Lost!

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  11. Arizona is right on the money ! I am an Amerikan and we deserve everything that
    is coming ! Half of our people are righteous, the other half worship Obama and

    • Hey Nam Marine,

      I’m afraid that we DO deserve everything that is coming. I just hope that you’re right and that as many as half of Amerikans are actually righteous. Unfortunately, we’ll find out when the trouble starts.

      God help us.

      Glad to have you on board Nam Marine!

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

  12. Interesting article overall.

    However, with regard to ‘Ethiopia’ and ‘Lybia’ mentioned Ezek 38:5, there is a tendency to go off at a tangent. When we look today at these nations today we see insurrection, terrorism, confusion, famine etc. How could such nations plausibly be involved in a full-scale military invasion of Israel? At the risk of being facetious, the IDF could deal with them in the morning and be back for lunch.

    “But wait a minute”, goes the logic, “there is an Islamic republic in Sudan”. They are not exactly bosom pals with the Israelis and have a connection with Ethiopia. Throw in Somalian terrorists and you have a ‘plan’ — albeit an unwitting concocted one, which takes us further away from the Biblical text while in search of an interpretation.

    Let’s look again at the text in Hebrew. It is not state ‘Ethiopia and Lybia’, but ‘Cush and Put’. It was the Greeks who named/renamed these areas (including Egypt from Aegytpus, where the Hebrew name was Mizraim i.e. ‘land of the two rivers’).

    So what about Cush and Put? Yes some of these peoples, the descendants of Ham, settled in Africa, but not only there. Some went east and south from Babel (Shinar, Sumer). To where though?

    The Hindu Kush (in Afghanistan) gives us one clue; the Indian term ‘Rajput’ (king of ruler of Put) another. Remember the British Raj (kingdom, rulership) in India? These are but a few hints. There is also evidence of Abrahamic influence in the Indian subcontinent, viz. the Brahmin, or traditional ruling class – probably some of his descendants by Keturah. The area is a mixture of races and colours from white- to very dark-skinned (particularly in Tamil areas) — testament to the various waves of migrants and conquerors down the centuries.

    Now factor in the ‘kings of the east’ (Rev 16:12) and, for example, the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (‘SCO’, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation) which granted observer status, to amongst, others Afghanistan (2012), India (2005), Iran (2008) and Pakistan (2005).

    Who amongst the south-east Asian nations have nuclear weapons? India and Pakistan. Who have substantial armies? Same. Who has a radical Islamic agenda that has sucked in Al-Quaeda terrorists from all over the western world? Pakistan! Who is reputedly cooperating with Iran (Persia) on the nuclear front — see: http://www.ibtimes.com/iran-pakistan-nuclear-partners-214092

    Sometimes, and very often due to the ‘unquestioned prevailing view’, we just happen to be looking in the wrong places.

    • Hi John,

      That was quite a bit of work there. You pose some interesting theories. We’ll have to see how everything develops. The Saudis have been playing the fool upsetting everyone’s calculations. I strongly believe that events will happen just as the Bible describes them. The challenge is understanding what the Bible says.

      But, those of us who truly love the truth will not be fooled.

      Thank you for that, John.

      Yours in Christ,

      John Little

      • You’re welcome, John

        The difficulty often is the balance between reasonable ‘watching’ and speculation (which is not always bad) and trying make prophecy fit a prevailing theory (unsound). If we dig deep enough into the text, it is quite surprising what nuggets appear.

        The Jewish scholars have applied that principle in the remez(im) and midrash(im) for centuries. They were entrusted with the oracles of God (Rom 3:2). Moreover the structure of Hebrew enables the ‘hiding’ of underlying meanings to a far greater degree than say English. For example the connection between Noah and Jonah through the dove. Of course Christians have the benefit of being able to build on that particular Jewish ‘remez’ when considering the NT accounts of Jesus’ baptism — all a fascinating study.

        Another passage many people seem to ‘read over’ in the context of ‘end-time Israel’ is Gen 49:1. The book of Genesis contains many prophecies up to that point, and students often cite the ‘Law of First Mention’ with regard to that book in particular. However, I have heard no-one yet comment on the first-ever mention of ‘the last (or latter) days’ which actually appears in that verse. It is a prophecy by Jacob (Israel) to his sons as to what would befall their descendants at that general time.

        Now if ‘Israel’ has been ‘regathered in the land’ and we are now in the end-times, the prophecies in this chapter should reflect the nation today. However the state of Israel today does not have a separate region allocated to Asher, another to Reuben etc., as in ancient times. Indeed, the major issues or regionalisation or separation today are between Jews and Palestinians.

        If the modern state of Israel is the fulfillment, the only way individual tribal blessings (in the context of this passage) can be explained is by identifiable regions, or it cannot be the fulfillment. Neither is it explained by some Jews in Israel and roughly the same number in the USA, or in minorities in other countries. In such a scenario the benefits would accrue to the nations not their Jewish minorities, plus that theory becomes very cumbersome. It cannot yet the Millennium (’till Shiloh come’, troop, archers, devouring prey etc,)’ Logically, there has to be another explanation of this chapter — or else Israel is not in the end-times, or the sate of Israel is not the fulfillment.

        And why would the Holy Spirit make such a ‘significant mention’ of the term ‘last days’, specifically in relation to all 12 (or 13) tribes of Israel, if either the verse or the remainder of the chapter was unimportant….?

        I’ll leave ‘Gog’ for another day, too…. :-)

        You are to be complimented for your site, the quality of your reporting and your courteous manner.

        Kind regards


        • Hi John Thornton,

          An interesting comment, John.

          I have often thought about the prophecies given to each of the sons of Jacob. There are many possibilities here. Some prophecies may have been fulfilled without our knowing. Some could yet be fulfilled. Remember that the Middle East is going to be MASSIVELY restructured as a result of Gog and Magog, and the fulfillment of Isaiah 19 and 17.

          But, let me add a not of caution to our discourse. It worries me that you might be negatively influenced by Jewish writings. There is a lot of poison in those writings, and some of it is hard to detect. I strongly recommend putting them aside. If you must continue referring to them, treat with deadly care.

          I have a profound love for the Jewish people and lived in Israel for 15 years, and I count many Orthodox Jews as friends. But, they are caught in idolatry, and I hope one day that they will be freed from their chains.

          Thank you for those comments John. May the Lord bless you and keep you.

          Yours in Christ,

          John Little

          • Hi John

            Thank you for your comments.

            We can take account of the many things we see and read, but the principle is discernment (Heb 4:12). Perhaps you are referring to Kabbalistic writings, many of which are non-biblical, indeed occultic. Talmudic Judaism is also not the religion of the OT. It was affected by the Babylonian captivity and has been corrupted over the centuries. Indeed, Christ Himself warned in Matt 23:2-4: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens….”. Albeit His statement was twofold – i.e. not all about the Pharisees is wrong.

            Thus not all Jewish writings are wide of the mark. I had previously cited from Rom 3:2, but let us note all of what Paul wrote there: “What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. (Rom 3:1-2). Paul himself was “a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee” (Acts 23:6) who had been taught “at the feet of Gamaliel” (Acts 22:3), who in turn was “a Pharisee….a teacher of the law held in respect by all the people” (Acts 5:34). Indeed, much of Paul’s teaching on law and grace in the NT, required someone of his extensive learning in Pharisaical Judaism (and Graeco-Roman culture) to conceptualise and put across with the authority that would not have been possible with say a Peter or Luke.

            While the Jewish people are by and large blinded for now (Matt 13:15, John 12:40 and Acts 28:27 etc. – all cited from Isa 6:10) that does not prevent the Christian examining those same sources, armed with the spiritual tools to understand. Indeed the blinding is, in itself, an incredible statement, on a par with the Tower of Babel. How can people read perfectly clear passages like Isa 53 and draw the conclusion that that somehow describes Israel on a bad day? But that is what God has done, for now. They are prisoners of their traditions, but there will be massive national awakening in the years to come, most likely started by the Two Witnesses.

            Moreover the Hebrew language, including its developments over the centuries and millennia, is the prime source of OT revelation. The Greek Septuagint (LXX), though mainly used in the NT to cite the Old, was an ‘Inter-testament’ translation of the original. In many places it diverges significantly from the Hebrew Text. It contributed to the anti-Semitism, Catholicism and heresies of the Early/Middle Ages, by breaking with Christianity’s Hebrew past. Jerome eventually discarded the LXX as the basis of his Latin translation and reverted to the Hebrew text (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome#Translations_and_commentaries). Later, William Tyndale (whose translation heavily influenced the KJV) had to go to Germany to study Hebrew, since the Jews had been expelled from England in 1290 by Edward I.

            When there was still no canonised NT, Peter wrote “…no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (2 Pet 1:20-21) and Paul (the probable writer) wrote: “God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets…”(Heb 1:1). Christ Himself stated “The law and the prophets were until John…”(Luke 16:16). Augustine wrote: “In the Old Testament the New Testament is concealed; in the New Testament the Old Testament is revealed.” The book of Revelation (which also refers to the Gog/Magog invasions – both 1 and 2) cannot be properly understood without reference to the OT. (e.g. Rev 11 and Zech 3-4).

            Even the concept of God as Creator of time and space is indicated by the subtlety of the language in the very first occurrence of the untranslatable Hebrew word ‘et (alef-tav) in Gen 1:1. He states that He is the First and the Last (Isa 44:6 etc.) Christ, God the Son, by whom everything was created (John 1:3), repeats the statement in Rev 1:11 etc. The positioning of the ‘et is fascinating. In grammatical terms ‘et it is known and ‘the definite direct object marker’. In other words it informs the reader which noun is the object (predicate) of the verb whereas English derives that from the structure and sense, thus ‘et is untranslatable. In Gen 1:1, it comes immediately after ‘elohiym (God) and before he creates the heavens (shamayim) and the earth (‘eretz). Thus there is a ‘remez’, a hint of something deeper. It wasn’t until Einstein worked out the concept of ‘space-time’ through his Theories of Special and General relatively that we began to understand time as a physical property that can vary with speed and gravity. Even the laws of space and time had a beginning. God is eternal – He exists outside time, and is not limited by space – both of which He created.

            So there buried within an untranslatable Hebrew word is the concept of the Creator God, and before creating anything else, mapping out a beginning and end (time), and within which He created space as a ‘package’. It begins to explain how God can declare the end from the beginning (Isa 46:10). It also gives us a glimpse how He can predict and fulfil every prophecy to the letter.

            Though I have not yet found it, I understand then Jews have a midrash regarding this. Such is the richness of the text of the Hebrew Bible (our OT). And what a great shame that for now the people who preserved that text, in the main have been blinded from its full truth, and, in particular, the identity of their ‘Mashiach Nagid’ – Messiah the Prince (Dan 9:25).

            Kind regards


          • Hi John Thornton,

            Very, VERY interesting comment. There is quite a bit that you say here that I know myself from my 15 years in Israel. It sounds like you understand my concerns about Talmudic Judaism, so that is a great relief. You also understand the current spiritual condition of the Jewish people, which many Christians who love the Jews do not.

            Be careful not to take things too far, or to be dogmatic about these things – an admonition that I must often apply to myself. I spend a lot of time speculating on God and His creation and have to give myself a shake, before chasing down too many rabbit holes.

            Should we both be in Jerusalem at the same time, we should meet for coffee.

            Yours in Christ,

            John Little

  13. I love this forum!

    If Israel is forced to attack Irans Nuclear facilities, much in the middle east will change quickly. I think Gog is Russia, but Turkey could be pulled down towards Israel to fulfill the prophesy.

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